Jochem van Dieten is now in my Plonk list.  Plonk! ... View more

Kath-H wrote: Now, will the sanitised version survive? LOL! ... View more

All posts of mine deleted by van Dieten, including the original text of this message and in one below no longer visible on the web interface, have been sent out by email anyway. Additionally, they're already cached in Google groups. ... View more

John Joslin wrote: Adobe does not impose explicit rules on community moderators regulating such deletions. I think when they wrote that, they were assuming a certain level of humanity and discretion in the chosen moderators! JJ, remember that the "moderators" are now being chosen by the same people who chose Jive. ... View more

It's amusing, interesting and ironic that a fervent NTTP advocate, van Dieten, has now been brought down to the janitorial level of a forum bouncer. Just think:  if we had NTTP, which he champions, he would be utterly powerless at censoring individual posts.  He could prbably block and ban posters after the fact, but anyone could just create additional new accounts (like LT) and their sent posts would be irretrievably all over the net.  ... View more

[edited] Please keep the discussion on the topic of faq improvements ... View more

Give me a break, Mike.  You're one of the bright minds at Adobe, and in my experience you've been vey helpful. Now look at the title of this thread: Forum etiquette FAQ needs edit/clarification of (a recent? addition) Emphasis on clarification. As currently written, that sentence can be abused by heavyhanded forum bouncers, of which there's no shortage at this time. ... View more

Here goes post #42 all over again. Two things to remember: • some folks forget that they cease to be "one of us" when they become hosts; and • they've never read the Gandhi quote.  It is time, therefore, to repeat it: This is a genuine, well-known quote by Mahatma Ghandi, the Indian spiritual leader and activist: • A customer is the most important visitor on our premises, he is not dependent on us. We are dependent on him. • He is not an interruption in our work. He is the purpose of it. • He is not an outsider in our business. He is part of it. • We are not doing him a favor by serving him.     He is doing us a favor by giving us an opportunity to do so. Employees of any entity, whether in government or in private business, will do well to keep it in mind and at heart. The recent post by Kim A. Nguyen, universally well received here, shows that she knows this principle and puts it into practice. However, a few Adobe staff and associates seem somehow to think that Adobe's customers are lowly adversaries in some sort of Internet game or in a newsgroup.  Those who manifest that misguided and poisonous attitude in this forum and in their blogs are showing their incompetence and their ignorance of basic business principles.  To them I say:  you're dead wrong!  You are far from being our superiors, you are our servants. They should know well who they are—and we certainly do. ... View more

You see, tuxedo boy, your post #83 is a perfect example of some of you people not grasping the fact that, as Adobe representatives or delegates of such, you are not permitted to post in that tone. If Adobe was a functioning, well-oiled enterprise like IBM, Microsoft or Ford, reporting the behavior of several of the host/moderators here would result in their immediate removal and possibly—likely—the firing of their Adobe supervisor who tolerates them.  Unfortunately, Adobe is far from that.  It is a decaying, elephantine, unresponsive, gargantuan and disorganized bureaucracy that is slowly but inexorably crumbling.  That decay affects software development as well, not just customer service. It's not just the forums going to pot, it's the entire gamut of customer service, customer support and it's reflecting in the applications too. You have zero moral authority now.  Go preach to someone who respects you.  Your efforts are wasted here. ... View more

Thanks, JJ.  I'll contact you privately after I'm logged off. ... View more

Kath-H wrote: …if anyone doesn't want to attract negative comments, marching in and throwing their weight about is not a productive course of action. Very well said, Kath. ... View more

Curt Wrigley wrote: …If you believe that… Of course I believe that, why else would I have typed it?  Duh! There's no community left because the heavy-caliber users have left.  The questions being asked now are at an unconscionably low level, being asked by folks who've never even opened the application's user guide.  Teaching others how to use the application is beyond the scope of this forum or any other forum. Curt Wrigley wrote: …then you have a very narrow viewpoint. Just as easily, I could accuse you of being narrow minded. My viewpoint is not narrow, it is focused, which is a very different thing.  But I'm not surprised you don't grasp the difference, tuxedo boy. Regardless of how you or others may view the forum users, the naked fact remains that it is a hassle to get in here, stayed logged in and navigate the site—for nothing.  This has become a cemetery with a few zombies plodding around. This is a remarkable show of incompetence by Adobe and its minions. ... View more

Kath, These forums—and Adobe—no longer deserve our support. When I next get logged off sometime later today, I'm not planning to log back on—ever again.  Adobe has effectively killed the forums, as they anihilated the Adobe Studio Exchange. ... View more

John Joslin wrote: The new moderator's style may well eliminate the idle chit-chat but it will also extinguish the community spirit. JJ, That's like saying that the nuclear bomb "extinguished the community spirit" in Hiroshima.  Heck, there's no community left any more! ... View more

Buko. wrote: Hard to do when the hosts have proven otherwise. Two things to remember, Buko. • some folks forget that they cease to be "one of us" when they become hosts; and • they've never read the Gandhi quote.  It is time, therefore, to repeat it: This is a genuine, well-known quote by Mahatma Ghandi, the Indian spiritual leader and activist: • A customer is the most important visitor on our premises, he is not dependent on us. We are dependent on him. • He is not an interruption in our work. He is the purpose of it. • He is not an outsider in our business. He is part of it. • We are not doing him a favor by serving him.     He is doing us a favor by giving us an opportunity to do so. Employees of any entity, whether in government or in private business, will do well to keep it in mind and at heart. The recent post by Kim A. Nguyen, universally well received here, shows that she knows this principle and puts it into practice. However, a few Adobe staff and associates seem somehow to think that Adobe's customers are lowly adversaries in some sort of Internet game or in a newsgroup.  Those who manifest that misguided and poisonous attitude in this forum and in their blogs are showing their incompetence and their ignorance of basic business principles.  To them I say:  you're dead wrong!  You are far from being our superiors, you are our servants. They should know well who they are—and we certainly do. ... View more

Read the post immediately preceding yours (#73).   ... View more